Federal debt approaching $9 trillion

Taxes, finance, economic theory, etc.

Postby willard » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:29 am

Yellow_Dog wrote:
etowah wrote:

But someone else will get the blame for having to raise the taxes to pay the debts, and Bush will be lily white, isn't that the plan?


Yes,
we'll be stuck with the new "reagan". Bush will become a myth - as has reagan.

I can't hardly balance my checkbook. But, I was taught that uncontrolled debt is a bad thing. It appears that our debt is out of control. The Chinese own most of the debt. What will it take to satisfy the chinese when the going gets tough? Will we submit to their foreign policy pandering? Or human rights abuse? or military intervention.

I know that when you are beholden to some for anything, it limits your options. As a superpower, we are diminshing in stature. Our debt and the Ireaq debacle and waste of $'s is a great part of it. As is the changing nature of rising power in China, Russia and India.
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Postby Yellow_Dog » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:24 pm

willard wrote:
I know that when you are beholden to some for anything, it limits your options. As a superpower, we are diminshing in stature. Our debt and the Ireaq debacle and waste of $'s is a great part of it. As is the changing nature of rising power in China, Russia and India.


Actually I no longer see the US as a super power, but more a stumbling giant that can no longer keep our own house in order. Just big and clumsy, but certainly not powerful. The fall of this once great country has started, the foundation has been eroded, possibly beyond repair, and the collapse is progressing. Bush and company have done a great deal to accelerate the demise of this country.
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Postby Thomas » Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:17 pm

Yellow_Dog wrote:
willard wrote:
I know that when you are beholden to some for anything, it limits your options. As a superpower, we are diminshing in stature. Our debt and the Ireaq debacle and waste of $'s is a great part of it. As is the changing nature of rising power in China, Russia and India.


Actually I no longer see the US as a super power, but more a stumbling giant that can no longer keep our own house in order. Just big and clumsy, but certainly not powerful. The fall of this once great country has started, the foundation has been eroded, possibly beyond repair, and the collapse is progressing. Bush and company have done a great deal to accelerate the demise of this country.


When you say demise just what do you envision that being? As for loss of super power status, not a bad idea. Like the fabled gun slingers of the old west, top man was always a target of the next guy looking to get famous. It's like there is this huge national ego that is being thwarted. People are attracted by a little humility. Only a powerful nation can be truly humble.
"You teach best what you most need to learn." ~ Richard Bach
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Postby willard » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:54 pm

well, in some ways I see moving towards third country status. Look at our "healthcare system" Ranked somewhere around 42nd. Our kids don't compete well with other nations in terms of education.

It seems that most folks want it bigger and better but don't want the work to go along with the idea. By work I mean the education

Maybe because I'm near the end of my useful life I've become more pessimistic. I see little that gives me cause for optimism
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Postby Yellow_Dog » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:20 pm

Thomas wrote:When you say demise just what do you envision that being? As for loss of super power status, not a bad idea. Like the fabled gun slingers of the old west, top man was always a target of the next guy looking to get famous. It's like there is this huge national ego that is being thwarted. People are attracted by a little humility. Only a powerful nation can be truly humble.

Point 1:As Willard pointed out in a subsequent post, one issue is health care. We have so many people that are in denial about this. The see the technologies that are available, but the fail to see the 10's of millions that have no access to health care in this country. The death rates inside our medical system are unacceptable, yet it isn't even on the radar of most people, and certainly not the medical community, which is too damn busy stroking their own ego while making decisions based on corporate profits and not on what is good for the patient or the process.

Economic internal: The middle class is toast, and we are likely only a decade away from some serious and society destroying poverty, homelessness, and the crime and ills this brings to our society.
Staggering taxes out of necessity due to the criminally reckless policies of the 8 year Bush legacy.

Economic global: We are going to be road kill in the global economic market. China will quickly surpass us, and be the dominate economy outside of the oil producing Huge portions of our national debt are held by other countries, China being a major holder. They will get to call too many shots when the notes are due and overdue.

Immigration: Though by our standards this will not be a good place to live, it will still be a better option than many other countries. Our lack of any pretense of a border or immigration control will clearly dilute and pollute our society, into a multi language country divided by culturally and ethnic differences.

This is a few items on my short list, and we are the people that are responsible, as we continue to elect the stupid, the corrupt, and the incompetent. I actually believe this cannot be turned around without an armed and ugly revolt to bring about the changes that are needed. And of course the plan is in place to turn over control of this country to the North American Union, and the UN. The papers have already been signed. And if not for the NRA we would have already turned in our guns, as then we hold no cards when dealing with the government that was designed to serve us.
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Postby 4tees » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:29 pm

Yellow_Dog wrote: Point 1:As Willard pointed out in a subsequent post, one issue is health care. We have so many people that are in denial about this. The see the technologies that are available, but the fail to see the 10's of millions that have no access to health care in this country. The death rates inside our medical system are unacceptable, yet it isn't even on the radar of most people, and certainly not the medical community, which is too damn busy stroking their own ego while making decisions based on corporate profits and not on what is good for the patient or the process.

Economic internal: The middle class is toast, and we are likely only a decade away from some serious and society destroying poverty, homelessness, and the crime and ills this brings to our society.
Staggering taxes out of necessity due to the criminally reckless policies of the 8 year Bush legacy.

Economic global: We are going to be road kill in the global economic market. China will quickly surpass us, and be the dominate economy outside of the oil producing Huge portions of our national debt are held by other countries, China being a major holder. They will get to call too many shots when the notes are due and overdue.

Immigration: Though by our standards this will not be a good place to live, it will still be a better option than many other countries. Our lack of any pretense of a border or immigration control will clearly dilute and pollute our society, into a multi language country divided by culturally and ethnic differences.

This is a few items on my short list, and we are the people that are responsible, as we continue to elect the stupid, the corrupt, and the incompetent. I actually believe this cannot be turned around without an armed and ugly revolt to bring about the changes that are needed. And of course the plan is in place to turn over control of this country to the North American Union, and the UN. The papers have already been signed. And if not for the NRA we would have already turned in our guns, as then we hold no cards when dealing with the government that was designed to serve us.


You are correct that an ugly time lies ahead for us. Like many great nations throughout history we have forgotten what made us great. Too many Americans have succumbed to an orgy of national vanity and wealth adulation. I don’t think an armed revolt will occur in the traditional sense, but when the economic collapse occurs things will likely get violent. I have long believed we still have time to turn things around and avoid this collapse, but I too am loosing hope. The dogged determination of so many Americans to hide the truth from themselves is disheartening.
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