Way to full of ourselves

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Way to full of ourselves

Postby S » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:49 am

A recent op-ed column in the New York Times by David Brooks is dead on the money about an attitude that is far too prevalent in America today. Hubris, arrogance, egotism whatever you want to call it is destroying the soul of America. This is where Ayn Rand's Objectivism fueled by Madison Avenue's unchecked onslaught to sell anything to everyone through the medium of television has brought America to. If you ask me it's rather disgusting phase in our history. How do you all feel about it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/opinion/15brooks.html?scp=1&sq=high-five%20nation&st=cse

Today, immodesty is as ubiquitous as advertising, and for the same reasons. To scoop up just a few examples of self-indulgent expression from the past few days, there is Joe Wilson using the House floor as his own private “Crossfire”; there is Kanye West grabbing the microphone from Taylor Swift at the MTV Video Music Awards to give us his opinion that the wrong person won; there is Michael Jordan’s egomaniacal and self-indulgent Hall of Fame speech. Baseball and football games are now so routinely interrupted by self-celebration, you don’t even notice it anymore.
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby Thomas » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:36 am

You mean what do we think about it? Not a whole lot actually. I seem to have a picture in my head of revelers in Times Square whooping it up big time on VJ day. Far from being humble I think the whole war effort played a big part in what followed, a nation that thinks of itself as invincible. Sure pro sports have taken on a sort of bravado probably, in part, fueled by outrageous pay checks. Never been much of a fan anyhow. I missed the Jordan thing but as for Kanye, he's as the president said, a jackass, an exception to the rule. At least the "jackass" was praising someone else, not himself and he did hasten to apologize. It bothers me more those humble souls who thank the Jesus for their good fortune.

Anyhow, this is not the first point in history where pomposity reigned. Did you happen to watch any of the Tudors, the TV series about Henry VIII? Whatever, this is an era when any Tom Dick or Fool can be an instant published author as we sit here doing just that. It's pretty amazing some little old guy like me shows up on Google. Well, in spite of my critics, I take a long time to make a post like this while many simply blurt whatever comes to mind. On some venues it's wasted time but I actually think I am being respectful, sometimes even to fools who don't deserve it. Still, I recall a wooden ruler in my desk at school which had The Golden Rule embossed on the back. Strange how that stuck with me and has been the cause of much indignation when others do not follow it.

Then there is the witness or witnessing as the sages speak of it. Much of the time I am somewhat removed from what's happening in the world. You know the bit about being in the world but not of it? The forums keep me grounded, perhaps too much as my "friend" Bill once said "he gets a little too emotional". Yes, there is that side too, the guy who, as long as I can recall, has been indignant about one thing or another. But the wise self knows it's all for naught. I can change nothing but me and even there it's only with great effort. There is another wise saying that I often turn to when things get dicey, "this too will pass".

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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby S » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:47 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iiY1_HdusM

God I love this video. Obama keeps getting better and better. His comment, at the least, indicates he is in touch with what is going on in America.

Yes there seems to be a lot of revelry going on in Times square as the VJ day elation spills out. That is to be expected from the masses that had just endured years of war and the losses and sacrifices it brought to so many American families. One can not deny those folks their moment of elation. However, American society is vastly different than in those days, today we are driven by vastly different forces. Sure there has been and always will be pockets of pomposity but this is becoming ubiquitous in American society and it is being brought to you live as it happens (unlike previous periods of human history).
Honestly, I find it hard to equate what TV projects about the Tudors or Henry the VIII for that matter. History is to malleable especially for screenwriters.

A recent poll on CNN showed that 90% of respondents feel there is a breakdown of civility in America. Here is a blog from 2005/2004 that speaks of this. Here is an interview from 1998 on PBS.Org with Professor Stephen Carter of the Yale Law School, he further elucidates my point. This deterioration has been a long time coming and seems to be reaching, thanks to the far right, a critical mass.
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby Thomas » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:53 am

S wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iiY1_HdusM

God I love this video. Obama keeps getting better and better. His comment, at the least, indicates he is in touch with what is going on in America.

Yes there seems to be a lot of revelry going on in Times square as the VJ day elation spills out. That is to be expected from the masses that had just endured years of war and the losses and sacrifices it brought to so many American families. One can not deny those folks their moment of elation. However, American society is vastly different than in those days, today we are driven by vastly different forces. Sure there has been and always will be pockets of pomposity but this is becoming ubiquitous in American society and it is being brought to you live as it happens (unlike previous periods of human history).
Honestly, I find it hard to equate what TV projects about the Tudors or Henry the VIII for that matter. History is to malleable especially for screenwriters.

A recent poll on CNN showed that 90% of respondents feel there is a breakdown of civility in America. Here is a blog from 2005/2004 that speaks of this. Here is an interview from 1998 on PBS.Org with Professor Stephen Carter of the Yale Law School, he further elucidates my point. This deterioration has been a long time coming and seems to be reaching, thanks to the far right, a critical mass.


I agree but the only thing any of us can do is keep on keeping on and not allow ourselves to be infected by the virus. Saner voices may prevail among conservatives, hopefully sooner than later. Heard Joe Scarborough this morning echo the sentiments of Senator Goldwater when he said "To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable." Now William F Buckley, Jr. was a man I could respect even if he was a bit arrogant. It seems there is no replacement for the father of modern conservatism. Today the right follows a self described rodeo clown (Glenn Beck) and comedian Rush Limbaugh. I'm hoping like Ralph Nader, this has to follow the path of the drug addict and hit rock bottom before people wake up. What cracks me up is, these tea party nuts are fearful their world is being destroyed and don't realize their own role in the process.

Yep, the video is a hoot. I suspect he never thought it would see the light of day, however. :lol:
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby 4tees » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:29 pm

Without civility there can be no reasonable, logical, rational discussion of ideas. Without reasonable, logical, rational discussion of ideas we are left with unreasonable, irrational, emotional arguements over ideas, which lead to nothing but further declines in civility. It is a vicious cycle.
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby S » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:47 pm

Here's a piece on Glenn Beck. I'm really getting annoyed by this guy. Notice how many time fear is mentioned in the article. This guy is becoming one of the main conduits of propaganda and indoctrination for the right wing zealots. It is hard to see how intelligent and wise peole can fall for this hyped up stuff. I myself find his tactic repulsive and idiotic. I can't for the life of me figure out why he is popular. He must be making seriously big bucks to front for the health care industry or any other corporation for that matter that will pony up the money. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348,00.html?cnn=yes
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby Odber » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:19 pm

S wrote:Here's a piece on Glenn Beck. I'm really getting annoyed by this guy. Notice how many time fear is mentioned in the article. This guy is becoming one of the main conduits of propaganda and indoctrination for the right wing zealots. It is hard to see how intelligent and wise peole can fall for this hyped up stuff. I myself find his tactic repulsive and idiotic. I can't for the life of me figure out why he is popular. He must be making seriously big bucks to front for the health care industry or any other corporation for that matter that will pony up the money. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348,00.html?cnn=yes


When you start to get annoyed, thats when you need to start listening.

Listen to what he says, take what he says with a grain of salt and digest it.

Think about what the man said, and then go from there.

Fury cures nothing. That man has an opinion just like every man here in the world. He gets paid to say what he says.

If he was saying things you agree with, we wouldn't be on this thread. It is a free country, grow up !

Get your own stooge to put your views out !
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby S » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:09 pm

Odber wrote:
When you start to get annoyed, thats when you need to start listening.

Listen to what he says, take what he says with a grain of salt and digest it.

Think about what the man said, and then go from there.

Fury cures nothing. That man has an opinion just like every man here in the world. He gets paid to say what he says.

If he was saying things you agree with, we wouldn't be on this thread. It is a free country, grow up !

Get your own stooge to put your views out !


Have you been drinking? Anyway that's beside the point, but thanks for making a case for the lack of civility issue that is the gist of this thread. Your timing is perfect. One question. Fury, the Plymouth or the horse on the TV show, which do you mean? Regardless, I have to agree that neither cured anything.

It is a free country, grow up ! Get your own stooge to put your views out !


Would you disambiguate those lines for me. They don't make a whole lot of sense when you think about them for a second or two. However I do think they are key in understanding where you are coming from.

BTW welcome to the forum.
"Though all the maps of blood and flesh are posted on the door. There is no one yet who has told us what Boogie Street is for." Leonard Cohen
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby Thomas » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:59 am

Found this interesting link on PBS

Ask Amy: What Happened To Civility?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112926564&ft=1&f=5
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby Thomas » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:16 am

I simply cannot suffer watching Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh or any of those professional clowns. What we need is not rabble rousing boobs, but intelligent discussions that do not inflame sentiments. These people are playing on the basest of human emotions. Their audiences are far too susceptible to suggestion. Just listen to some of these so called tea party people. It is a kindness to call them ignorant when in actuality they are simply stupid people incapable of logical thinking and far too ready to listen to any sort of big mouth. Limbaugh and Beck and others are exploiting ignorance for their own financial gain. Under closer scrutiny they might be seen to be exciting people to commit violence and as such are violating free speech rights and ought to be shut down.

A question I have been asking for some time now. The current state of affairs with the right today is rather disturbing. The media gate keepers are obviously working in lock-step to incite the base, but to what end? Dissent is fine and just in a free country and opposing views should be encouraged not just tolerated. But when does descent and opposition cross the line form healthy democracy to something more base and destructive?
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby S » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:31 am

Yet another NYX"s columnist pointing out the degraded state of the conservative movement in America and the halls of congress. Bob Herbert of the Times writes,

After all these years of race-baiting and stirring the pot of hatred for political gain, it’s too much to ask the leaders of the Republican Party to step forward and denounce this spreading stain of reprehensible conduct. Republicans are trying to ride that dependable steed of bigotry back to power.


How low do conservatives have to stoop before they realize they are consuming themselves in their own hatred, selfishness and arrogance? How long do decent human being seeking a small secure piece of life for themselves and their families have to tolerate the selfish ignorance of the neocon right as they seek to hoard all the riches of life for themselves? I fear the conservatives in their myopic mindsets will revert to even more desperate acts of stupidity which will lead to death and destruction instead of coalescing into a productive union of intelligent people guided by the light of true wisdom that was intended in this grand experiment known as the USA.

For the Beckerheads out there here is a huge road sign showing you the direction you are heading.

Glenn Beck, one of the moronic maestros of right-wing radio and TV, assures us that President Obama “has a deep-seated hatred for white people.” Some years ago, as the watchdog group Media Matters for America points out on its Web site, Beck said he’d like to beat Representative Charles Rangel “to death with a shovel.”


I suppose those blinded by their own arrogance and selfishness can't read the writing on the wall no matter how large and bold the letters are.
"Though all the maps of blood and flesh are posted on the door. There is no one yet who has told us what Boogie Street is for." Leonard Cohen
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby 4tees » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:14 am

Odber wrote: It is a free country, grow up !

Get your own stooge to put your views out !


Your post was civil and rational, until you got to this point. If you want to bash some liberal pundit....go ahead, but don't attack other posters on this board. Debate the ideas, not the poster(s).
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby S » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:02 pm

Odber wrote:Fury cures nothing. That man has an opinion just like every man here in the world. He gets paid to say what he says.


Actually It is more like he gets paid to say what he's told to say in order to obfuscate, mislead and misrepresent the facts. A modern day Joseph Goebbels as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby 4tees » Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:12 pm

I've never listened to Beck for more than a few seconds at a time while channel surfing, but I have had the misfortune of hearing Rush for extended periods on several ocassions. That Rush has stayed on the air for so long is a very poor refelction on our society. If Beck is anything like Rush then he should be fired as well.
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Re: Way to full of ourselves

Postby etowah » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:12 pm

World War II was fought and won by young Americans who had survived another type of conflict-
the Great Depression. Many who joined the service first experienced regular meals and medical
care. Then you fast forward to the 50"s and beyond-widespread prosperity, the introduction of
television into the home, and the decay of good manners.

Interesting that you blame the conservatives for part of the lack of civility, S. For years, conservative
speakers have been jeered and shouted down on college campuses-including NC, and this has been
ignored by the mainstream media.




S wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iiY1_HdusM

God I love this video. Obama keeps getting better and better. His comment, at the least, indicates he is in touch with what is going on in America.

Yes there seems to be a lot of revelry going on in Times square as the VJ day elation spills out. That is to be expected from the masses that had just endured years of war and the losses and sacrifices it brought to so many American families. One can not deny those folks their moment of elation. However, American society is vastly different than in those days, today we are driven by vastly different forces. Sure there has been and always will be pockets of pomposity but this is becoming ubiquitous in American society and it is being brought to you live as it happens (unlike previous periods of human history).
Honestly, I find it hard to equate what TV projects about the Tudors or Henry the VIII for that matter. History is to malleable especially for screenwriters.

A recent poll on CNN showed that 90% of respondents feel there is a breakdown of civility in America. Here is a blog from 2005/2004 that speaks of this. Here is an interview from 1998 on PBS.Org with Professor Stephen Carter of the Yale Law School, he further elucidates my point. This deterioration has been a long time coming and seems to be reaching, thanks to the far right, a critical mass.
http://alumni.unc.edu/article.aspx?sid=6660
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