Wal-Mart: More harm than good?

Western North Carolina specific topics.

Postby Thomas » Sun May 07, 2006 10:20 am

Yes sir, agreed to. How? :?
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Postby Louise » Sun May 07, 2006 2:07 pm

4tees:

I must be related to Thomas :lol: because I can't follow some of your logic. What does the National interest have to do with corporate profits for Wal-Mart? :? What does National interest have to do with my shopping at Wal-Mart? :? This is the type of argument that should be used against Exxon. That corporation's profit does affect National interest.

As for the 'low wages' and 'working conditions' that are always put forth as a an argument against Wal-Mart, I find that most people that are dissatisfied with their pay will leave that job if they do not receive the pay they think they are entitled to.

And speaking of 'entitled to', too many young people think they are due high wages just because they want them. When I started working for a living, you had to prove that you could do the job before the pay raises came your way. The troubles in France with the youth labor force is a direct result of this type of thinking. The young expected a job and would have that job for the rest of their lives.

In today's economy, jobs do not last a lifetime. Technology has changed the workplace and the products being manufactured. How many cobblers do you know? or how many shoe repair shops are still around? Tailors? Dressmakers? Textile mills, sewing factories? Green grocers and small grocery stores? I could go on and on.

Like Thomas, I have a limited income and it is fixed for the rest of my life. When we get increases in the taxes and services, we have to economize in other areas, usually clothes and food and Wal-Mart does offer a service that we need.

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Postby Thomas » Sun May 07, 2006 2:25 pm

I find that most people that are dissatisfied with their pay will leave that job if they do not receive the pay they think they are entitled to.

Louise, I think this is one of those statements many of us make without really realizing we have no factual data to back it up.

Others have argued that Target is just down the road and hiring so if you are not happy with the job go there and apply. I don't think it is all that simple, wish it was but it is not. A rut is where many people find themselves. If you are in a low paying job to begin with you may very well lack the resources to simply quit and go elsewhere looking for work.

I will agree some of us do just that but again I have to suggest that some of us who post on the forums are not in touch with the reality of the underpaid work force. It is simply not that easy, especially around here where job opportunities are limited. :?
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Postby 4tees » Sun May 07, 2006 5:53 pm

Louise wrote:4tees:

I must be related to Thomas :lol: because I can't follow some of your logic. What does the National interest have to do with corporate profits for Wal-Mart? :? What does National interest have to do with my shopping at Wal-Mart? :? This is the type of argument that should be used against Exxon. That corporation's profit does affect National interest.

As for the 'low wages' and 'working conditions' that are always put forth as a an argument against Wal-Mart, I find that most people that are dissatisfied with their pay will leave that job if they do not receive the pay they think they are entitled to.

And speaking of 'entitled to', too many young people think they are due high wages just because they want them. When I started working for a living, you had to prove that you could do the job before the pay raises came your way. The troubles in France with the youth labor force is a direct result of this type of thinking. The young expected a job and would have that job for the rest of their lives.

In today's economy, jobs do not last a lifetime. Technology has changed the workplace and the products being manufactured. How many cobblers do you know? or how many shoe repair shops are still around? Tailors? Dressmakers? Textile mills, sewing factories? Green grocers and small grocery stores? I could go on and on.

Like Thomas, I have a limited income and it is fixed for the rest of my life. When we get increases in the taxes and services, we have to economize in other areas, usually clothes and food and Wal-Mart does offer a service that we need.

Louise


Louise, Wal-Mart is just one example of corporate needs trumping the national best interest, even though that was not the main point I was discussing with Thomas, (which is that Wal-Mart is by any practical standard a Monopoly).

How have Wal-Mart?s interests been placed above the national best interests? Our trade policy toward China and the resulting national deficit and loss of American jobs is the result of corporate profits being placed ahead of our national best interest (of which Wal-Mart is a large part).

Not only have we enslaved ourselves to China economically, we have also destroyed our national security. If China were to cut off imports they could shut us down in short order. We are on our way to becoming absolutely dependent on China. Why? So "our" corporations can boost their already obscene profits. If you or I sold off our national security like that we would be charged with treason.

Thomas is right about the low end job market. People working at that level are often trapped. If you don't believe he or I simply talk to some of the hard working people who work in that market. Moving from job to job in that market usually reduces your pay; that is reality. It is pure capitalistic fantasy that people can just "move on" to a better job.
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Postby Louise » Sun May 07, 2006 7:28 pm

I do not have any factual figures to prove my comment about changing jobs. I only know what I see in working with various payrolls in the area. People is low wage jobs are usually trying to live outside their means. I see this all the time. If you only have so much money to live on, why do you buy things that you can not afford - like expensive tickets to sports events and the latest fashions, big cars and all the trappings of the well-to-do. Wal-Mart is not the only corporation that sells China's imports. Go to some of the "better" stores and look at the country of origin on their merchandise. China is one of the main suppliers.

Most retail stores mark up the price of their merchandise 100 to 125 percent. It stays on the racks 2 to 4 weeks at this price and then they start their "discount" from the inflated price. Sam Walton used a different philosophy and worked from a volume stand point. It is called 'merchandising' and Sam was very good at it.

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Postby etowah » Tue May 09, 2006 9:03 pm

Louise wrote:I do not have any factual figures to prove my comment about changing jobs. I only know what I see in working with various payrolls in the area. People is low wage jobs are usually trying to live outside their means. I see this all the time. If you only have so much money to live on, why do you buy things that you can not afford - like expensive tickets to sports events and the latest fashions, big cars and all the trappings of the well-to-do. Wal-Mart is not the only corporation that sells China's imports. Go to some of the "better" stores and look at the country of origin on their merchandise. China is one of the main suppliers.

Most retail stores mark up the price of their merchandise 100 to 125 percent. It stays on the racks 2 to 4 weeks at this price and then they start their "discount" from the inflated price. Sam Walton used a different philosophy and worked from a volume stand point. It is called 'merchandising' and Sam was very good at it.

Louise


I also see this phenomenon in my business, of people -low, medium
and high income, living above their means. Thos consumer society
encourages such behavior, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't
resist it.

The old fashioned way of budgeting is the best-an envelope with money
for each bill-estimated on the high side, and including one for savings.
Only when all the bills are paid is any discretionary spending allowed.
He who keeps on dropping the ball doesn't
want to be in the game.
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Postby 4tees » Wed May 10, 2006 6:12 am

Our current corporatist economic system of consumerism encourages people to live beyond their means; the end result being net transfer of wealth from the lower to the upper classes. Not only that, but the illusion of continued "economic growth" would collapse if people started living within their means. Our imbalanced economy has become reliant on consumer excess. Individual and national debt is the only thing keeping our feel-good fantasy of American economic "superiority" alive.
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Postby AC130driver » Wed May 10, 2006 7:00 am

My wife, a part timer at WalMart during the summer, was contacted by a recruiter for Target. Target would pay her 45 cents an hour less than she's making now. As it turns out, overall, Target pays about the same as WalMart. Why aren't the commies upset with Target?
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Postby MurphyMobile » Wed May 10, 2006 8:40 am

Louise:
People is low wage jobs are usually trying to live outside their means

It is not just the workers in low paying jobs who live outside their income
level.
My other half worked for a printing company that paid an excellent salary.
Everytime a raise passed through, the workers had it spent before it was
in their paycheck. None of the employees caught up with their debts.
They still owe. What they are ignorant of: the company may go belly up.
And where will they be.

I do not believe it is the same for low paying jobs. There will always be
Wal-marts, MickeyD's, K-marts and grocery stores.

The person who is earning the paycheck needs to set some rules within
himself/herself. One does not need a budget, per se, just an orderly
manner in paying the bills before buying tickets to a game or a new plasma TV. People have to set priorities in life. And if they live within
them, no matter what salary they make, they will stay afloat, rather than
sink.

MM
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Postby Thomas » Wed May 10, 2006 12:48 pm

Some will complain that the schools are not teaching people how to handle money. Perhaps, perhaps not. It is a difficult process to make real life problem solving and budgeting in an artificial situation like a class room. I have read of innovative programs that may work but they involve a lot of time and effort apart from the normal school day.

So, what we have is the blind leading the blind, parents who were poor money managers teaching by bad example how it should not be done. Next little problem is, working stiffs need a break from their back breaking labors. so, they turn to alcohol or worse and buy a big TV they can ill afford which fills their heads with the American dream in the form of all the great things you can buy if you have the money.

Well, they don't have the money but they have a steady supply of credit card offers bombarding them every day, a really hard thing to resist when they are additionally surrounded by conspicuous consumption. Hey, you got it, why can't Ihave it?

Part of the solution is economic but a big part of it is social and there is nobody providing any real help in this area. We are far too fragmented a society to any longer rely on the local church, Rotary Club, or whatever to help in any significant way.

When I was a kid such organizations would give things like YMCA memberships to children who could not afford it. I will tell you, like it or not, if you are someone who has nothing much of the material wealth you see all around, you will beg borrow or steal to get it. Many do get into various criminal activities to pay their way.

Teaching JD inmates you learn some pretty shocking things like how much money a 16 year old kid can have in his pocket if he sells drugs. I've had kids and read of others in similar circumstances, who have said to me that I could make far more money dealing then teaching. It's a hard logic to argue against. Many are willing to risk spending some time in the lock up if between trips to jail they are living the high life.

Doesn't appeal to me but it does to far too many who otherwise would be on the streets poor as the proverbial church mouse.
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Postby 4tees » Thu May 11, 2006 6:42 am

Removing yourself from the "rat race" is one of the smartest thing you can do financially and to reduce your stress level. I have never understood why people immediately go out and get something bigger or "better" just because their income increases. I've even seen people who "brag" about how great they have it at home suddenly "need" more when they get an unexpected raise or promotion.

Just because you can make the payment on that $500K house with some of today's "creative" financing doesn't mean you should do so. People don't seem to realize that all they achieve by doing so is prolonging their "servitude" to the "system". They for all practical purposes give away their freedom, becoming so desperate for and dependent upon work (to keep the house) that they are essentially indentured servants to corporate America.

Instead, if you get a raise, pay off your debt, and save for your long term dreams! Such a simple concept, except that the terms ?long term? planning and ?short term sacrifice? seem to be impossible for most brainwashed Americans to comprehend these days.

Don?t let others define success for you. Remember that financial freedom does not mean wealth; it means freedom from financial worry, and there is more than one way to achieve that.
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Postby Yellow_Dog » Thu May 11, 2006 9:42 am

Many today are just like little kids in the toy isle at Wal Mart, laying on the floor kicking and screaming cause mommy won't buy them the toy they want right now.

Their world will end if they don't have everything they want, and right now, and because mommy or daddy often capitulates simply to shut them up, this is the value they take forward in to their own lives.

I have lived debt free for years now, I highly recommend it
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Postby Louise » Thu May 11, 2006 12:26 pm

Y-D

Very good advise. I use cc's but only as 30 day charge.

Louise
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Postby admin » Thu May 11, 2006 12:43 pm

+1 on Yellow_Dog's comments. I'm debt free and intend to stay that way.
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Postby Yellow_Dog » Thu May 11, 2006 2:54 pm

Louise wrote:Y-D

Very good advise. I use cc's but only as 30 day charge.

Louise

I use cc's also, but for the protection they offer if a dispute arises, convenience, and the fact that you must have a cc to reserve a motel room, rent a car, and many other transactions, including on-line purchases.

I pay the full balance every month. In the last 5+ years I have paid $0.00 in interest fees to all my creditors, as I don't have any :D
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