Civic Center

Western North Carolina specific topics.

Which Option would you prefer?

Turning the current building into a performing arts center and building a separate arena
3
19%
Building a performing arts center adjacent to City/County Plaza
0
No votes
Spending about $15 million to renovate the current facility
1
6%
Build new facility outside of downtown with parking
12
75%
 
Total votes : 16

Postby Thomas » Wed May 03, 2006 12:25 pm

You are twice as cantankerous as this old guy. What are you going to be like in 20 years? :lol: With gas at nearly $3/gallon, no trips to Greenville or the like for any reason. Then you gotta sleep over someplace or drive back late at night all tired, blah!

Have you been to any events at the Civic Center? Willie was at the other part of it, Thomas Wolfe auditorium is it? We have seats up close for Dylan this Saturday, right side first section. I don't care if it is in the lavatory, I would not miss it. This is a once in a life time event for us so forget you crab. :lol:
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Postby Thomas » Sun May 07, 2006 5:45 am

Well Yellow_Dog, I thought you were just a cranky old complainer until last night. We saw Willie at the Thomas Wolfe Auditorium and in spite of the cheap seats we went away feeling it was the best of five. Last night's foray into the belly of the sports arena will be our first and last. I kept wishing I had an RPG to blow the speakers out of the sky with and went away feeling like asking for at least half my money back.

Dylan, who is a master song crafter and, if nothing else, sings on pitch, is not exactly the kind of guy you listen to for his voice quality. This concert was devoid of lyrics and therefore a complete bust. His opening number "Maggie's Farm" set the tone for the rest of the show. Only lyrics intelligible was the line in the refrain, "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more". Without the lyrics the show sucked, didn't even stay till the end and had to stuff our ears with wads of tissue to even survive as long as we did.

Personally I got the feeling Asheville was an after thought or no thought at all but just a few more bucks in the pockets of the promo people. I was looking forward to a jam session with some great interaction between the two masters but got instead a compartmentalized presentation that made me wish it had been all Merle's show and to hell with that raspy voiced rock star who's performance was utterly devoid of the Dylan I have known and enjoyed for years on my home stereo. If this is what he is doing these days he should park the bus.:x

I still will not travel to those far off places for a concert, simply will not ever return to that venue regardless of who books in there, no exceptions. Thanks for the warning Y_D but it was too little too late. :cry:
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Postby Yellow_Dog » Sun May 07, 2006 10:53 am

I still will not travel to those far off places for a concert, simply will not ever return to that venue regardless of who books in there, no exceptions. Thanks for the warning Y_D but it was too little too late.


Living in Fletcher you have a great head start toward the Bi-Lo Center in Greenville. They get some big names, have an excellent facility. And when you compare the cost of getting there with the admission prices of any big draw show, the travel cost has little impact. And buy your gas in SC, as it will be 15-20 cents cheaper there.

I started to not say "I told ya so", but since you called me a cranky old man, "I TOLD YA SO :P :P :P :P :P :mrgreen: "
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Postby Thomas » Sun May 07, 2006 11:43 am

I know, got a second cousin that lives in that area and is an hour away. It's just an hour drive at night is more than these old eyes are into these days. A trip like that would cause me to want to stay over. :?

Hello cousin, do you have a spare room for us and the pooch? :?
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Postby SignGuyDino » Sun May 07, 2006 12:44 pm

http://www.asheville.nc.us/council/Agen ... ew%20A.pdf

http://www.asheville.nc.us/council/Agen ... %20A-1.pdf

http://www.asheville.nc.us/council/Agen ... Report.pdf


Those are the agenda documents for the next City Council meeting concerning the Civic Center.

The AACPA MIGHT give the City $10,000 for a STUDY to look at the feasibility of using the "Parkside" option. That IMO is a waste of money. No more studies. The State is NEVER going to accept a band-aid for the arena which Option 2 is. Not too mention too many different funding sources and other development have to be in line. Kind of late in the game considering the State has to decide on funding THIS year.

One person suggested at the last Task Force meeting building a new arena AND performing arts center, and use the arena for parking. (Not the first time suggested.) While it has some appeal it is basically way too expensive.

Option 1 is the only option that builds a new arena. ANY other plan has no chance of passage this year.

Come to the City Council meets at 5:00 Tuesday and support Option 1.
http://www.wncarena.com

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Postby Louise » Sun May 07, 2006 1:31 pm

Two of my favorite members are on opposite sides in this discussion. Both of you have made very good points.

Y-D, ALL of downtown is not as bad as you make it sound. :? I'm sure there are some interesting places in downtown you have NOT visited. :( The Thomas Wolfe House is one. Riverside Cemetery is another - a lot of interesting people are resting there. 8) Some of the houses on Beaucatcher Mountain have a very interesting history. :wink: One question - are you a 'native' or a 'transplant'?

Thomas, you have a very good insight in to the character of the area. 8) I have lived here all of my life and I find that underneath the apparent squaller, there is a beauty that is missed by those that do not look for it. :roll: Too many times we find the bad things because we are looking for them. :shock: Maybe Y-D will learn to look beneath what he expects to find and find the good things that are here.

Can either of you tell me which building in downtown was built without an entrance to the second and higher floors?

Louise
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Postby Yellow_Dog » Sun May 07, 2006 3:02 pm

Y-D, ALL of downtown is not as bad as you make it sound. I'm sure there are some interesting places in downtown you have NOT visited. The Thomas Wolfe House is one. Riverside Cemetery is another - a lot of interesting people are resting there. Cool Some of the houses on Beaucatcher Mountain have a very interesting history. One question - are you a 'native' or a 'transplant'?

Thought with all my postings everyone around knew I am native to the area, and that is why I rage so about the freaks destroying the place I grew up.
I have been about everywhere around here. To Zelanda before it became a B&B, to Seely's Castle before the 6 foot chain link topped with razor wire. When you look out and saw tree covered mountains without McMansions lining the ridge line and huge scars where the rich have deforested around their McMansion so they can have a view. With the exception of my military service and a couple of years living in Weaverville I have always lived within 2 miles of where I grew up, Please don't try to tell me about the good of Asheville, I still remember it, but it is gone.

Growing up I would go downtown by myself when I was 8 or 9 to get a hair cut at the Fox barber shop under the Thom McCann shoe store, meet friends and take in a movie, or just bum around. When everyone went to the Christmas Parade to see the Stevens Lee Band. Remember when TS Morrison was a feed/seed/hardware store, Been to Thomas Wolfe many times, Used the public rest rooms under Pack Square with no fears, and no problems from freaks. We didn't have panhandlers and as one of the 'roving youth' downtown we were courteous to other citizens and didn't block sidewalks.

Please don't try to tell me about the good of Asheville, I still remember it, but it has been destroyed by the homeless, freaks, and a bunch of Socialists that demand the right to micromanage every aspect of a persons life. The majority that move here don't want to embrace what brought them, but to destroy it and substitute what ever it was from they are running from, be it socialists agenda, houses crammed on top of houses, and the concept of I don't give a damn what the people see when they look at my mountain side home, but what I can see after I have all these damn nuisance trees cut down.
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Postby Thomas » Sun May 07, 2006 3:16 pm

There's really no arguing this point. I have watched a similar process occur in two of the places I called home and will no doubt feel the same as Y_D in a few years if I live long enough. One simply adapts or does not in which case the resentment will linger, festering like a boil on one's butt. :? The other option, which I have taken two or three times, was to pick up and move on but there is simply a limit as to how many times you can do this.

It's really up to the individual how to handle it. It is a question of the proverbial glass, half empty or half full. Which way do you see it? We new comers will not see the same picture as the native who has known no other home. :(
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Postby 4tees » Sun May 07, 2006 6:02 pm

What really cracks me up is that it is usually the most ardent supporters of unrestrained capitalism that complain the most about the results it has on an area when it becomes "hot". So long as profits are placed ahead of responsibility you will just get more of the same, regardless of which corrupt group is in office.
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Postby Louise » Sun May 07, 2006 7:53 pm

Y-D I agree with Thomas. No use in making yourself miserable about what has already happened.

I, too, can remember the things you mentioned. I have not lived downtown but I have worked downtown most of my working life. When I was very young, we lived in Emma. (I can just hear the 'where the heck is that' from the peanut gallery) Then we moved to between Asheville and Weaverville. I've been here ever since.

The old Pack Library was one of my favorite haunts, especially the third and fourth floors. They had some of the old plans for the buildings in downtown. Do you remember Newberry's with its old wooden floors that were oiled to keep down the dust? Tom's Cafe? Peterson's Grill? Hancock Restaurant? Yes, I also remember the restrooms on Pack Square. I have always thought the black/white issue was the reason they were closed.

I also remember some of the good things that have come with change. The cut through the mountain that took all the traffic out of downtown. Of course this was twenty years in being done also. Nothing gets done when it should.

The kooks have taken over the downtown area because it had become so run down and the rent was low enough to give them a foot hold. The Council never had a viable plan for downtown and they still don't. Do you think all the money that is being spent around the courthouse and the city building will make a difference? I don't think so.

Louise
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Postby etowah » Sun May 07, 2006 8:40 pm

Thomas wrote:There's really no arguing this point. I have watched a similar process occur in two of the places I called home and will no doubt feel the same as Y_D in a few years if I live long enough. One simply adapts or does not in which case the resentment will linger, festering like a boil on one's butt. :? The other option, which I have taken two or three times, was to pick up and move on but there is simply a limit as to how many times you can do this.

It's really up to the individual how to handle it. It is a question of the proverbial glass, half empty or half full. Which way do you see it? We new comers will not see the same picture as the native who has known no other home. :(


I, too, am witnessing this process in Florida. Rest assured that I do
respect the beauty of the NC mountains, and would be respectful of
the environment should I ever build a home here.

The most attractive trait of my house in Henderson County is the fact that
most of the trees have been left in place by the original owner.
He who keeps on dropping the ball doesn't
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Postby SignGuyDino » Sat May 13, 2006 8:52 am

Here's what really happened at the City Council meeting:

Keep in mind that the City Council appointed this Task Force last summer.

After the report, Councilman Mumpower poo-pooed both projects stating the numbers weren't "hard" enough. (Yet I never saw him at any Task Force meeting nor did he offer any serious alternative proposal.) And of course, there aren't enough alternatives and of course it's too expensive.

I hear a lot of talk about other "needs" of the City. Delaying this project will not help public housing, bring in more cops, etc. because the funding mechanisms used for Civic Centers wouldn't be used for those things regardless. (Except that a new arena's funding could fund the hiring of a few officers as permitted by law.)

The general line from some of the Council members were that we need to wait for the economic impact study to go forward.

This is stalling, folks. This makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get a proposal to the General Assembly this year. (So why did we even bother with a Task Force in the summer of last year?)

Will the economic impact study include the negative impact of stalling on this?

They wouldn't even go ahead with the roof because there's no answer for the Civic Center. The argument is why replace a roof twice (which could happen). Which means MAYBE 2-3 months before they move, meaning with winter coming they may not replace the roof in 2006.

That's a damn risky and irresponsible move if they aren't really going to do anything this year.

What was very interesting though was Councilman Davis suggesting that down the road there MIGHT BE A REGIONAL SPORTS FACILITY.

So why not start planning now? You're not going to get anything approved this year anyway.

Also interesting was Mayor Bellemy herself suggested there hasn't been a group focusing on a new arena and called me out by name suggesting I start one.

The general thoughts between the arts community and my sports friends was that what the City MIGHT accept is a modest performing arts center (near City Hall, run by AACPA and funded by Buncombe County), a fix-up of the Civic Center for trade shows and such (Asheville would run), and a regional arena for concerts, conventions, and sports at the WNC Ag. Center, or Biltmore Square Mall (state controlled, maybe state and/or privately funded).

Global Entertainment is still very interested in building and running a new arena. http://www.globalentertainment2000.com and http://www.coliseums.com

Certainly City Council does not wish to take any position at this precise moment.

Oh, http://www.wncarena.com
http://www.wncarena.com

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Postby ThePhan » Sat May 13, 2006 4:36 pm

I hear a lot of talk about other "needs" of the City. Delaying this project will not help public housing, bring in more cops, etc. because the funding mechanisms used for Civic Centers wouldn't be used for those things regardless. (Except that a new arena's funding could fund the hiring of a few officers as permitted by law.)


That's one of my greatest fears about this project--that it will collapse under the weight of every special interest group fighting to include their particular needs and wants in the funding for any new Civic Center/arena/performing arts venue. I've already heard some people speculate that the city will absolutely have to include a host of other civic-oriented improvements in any funding mechanism for such a project in order to win support from various special interest constituencies. The hogs will be fighting at the trough....

The general line from some of the Council members were that we need to wait for the economic impact study to go forward.


I continue to be amazed and dejected by the lack of leadership shown by elected officials in this area on this issue. It's absolutely disheartening.

After the report, Councilman Mumpower poo-pooed both projects stating the numbers weren't "hard" enough. (Yet I never saw him at any Task Force meeting nor did he offer any serious alternative proposal.) And of course, there aren't enough alternatives and of course it's too expensive.


See my comments above. I feel as though no one has done near enough homework in looking at how similar projects have been funded throughout the country. All I ever hear is random speculation about how such a project might be funded. Yet there have been plenty of cities that somehow figured it out and made it happen.

Of course, if you don't know WHAT you're building, you can't know how much it will cost, and therefore you can't possibly sell it to the citizenry, can you? Which means we're no farther along now than we were a decade ago. Amazing.
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Postby etowah » Mon May 15, 2006 8:56 pm

ThePhan wrote:

Of course, if you don't know WHAT you're building, you can't know how much it will cost, and therefore you can't possibly sell it to the citizenry, can you? Which means we're no farther along now than we were a decade ago. Amazing.



That is certainly the heart of the matter, ThePhan. Take the Flat Rock
Playhouse. Everyone knows it is the venue for the North Carolina State
Theater, and that is it. No sports shows, rock concerts, just great regional
theatre. And whenever I've attended(9 or 10 times) a packed house.

Better to do one thing well, than several in a mediocre way.
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Postby SignGuyDino » Sun May 21, 2006 5:07 pm

Monday's regular meeting for the Civic Center Commission doesn't have much on the agenda.

In the event there's something important happening I'll let you know.

Don't bank on it. :shock:

Some ideas suggested behind the scenes but we'll see if they can pan out....
http://www.wncarena.com

Dino is here...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!


The great aloof jerk Dennis "Dino" Justice is here!

ALL my friends call me "Dino." But you can call me "Miss Jackson" if you're nasty!
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